Navigating the Sea of the Trinity: A Deep Dive into Christian Theology

Are you ready to journey into one of the most complex concepts of Christian theology - the Trinity? I once firmly believed in the Trinity, a conviction shaped by numerous teachings. However, my journey led me to question its validity, thus sparking an exploration that we'll embark on together today. Get ready to probe into the depths of this profound theological concept, using the compass of biblical verses to guide us.

Our voyage takes us into the heart of understanding God in Christ. Join me as we dive into the scriptures, navigating from Matthew 16 to Deuteronomy 6, and unmasking the revelation of Jesus as a manifestation of God in the flesh. Together we'll unearth the belief that Jesus not only lived by the rules set in the Garden of Eden, but also offered sinless blood for human sin and wielded the power to calm stormy seas.

Finally, we'll confront the Trinitarian belief directly, loading its implications onto our ship of understanding and learning our role in mirroring Christ-like behavior in our lives. The idea of Jesus as God manifest in the flesh and the significance of expressing love to those around us will serve as our guiding stars. Hold tight as we chart our course through the sea of scriptural perspectives on the Trinity, a valuable map for those seeking to enrich their understanding of Christian theology.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Hello everybody, welcome to today's episode of Walk With Me. I am your host, jj. It's so good to have each and every one of you listening today. I really do appreciate it. I know it's not anything that I'm doing. It's really all about God, and you know, just watching the amount of listeners that are increasing every week, those this kind of lets me know that it's not about me, it's about God, and this is what we're talking about.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Shout out to our sponsors QBars, lyrisis. We actually donated some mic equipment so you may see over the next couple of weeks that I figure out how to get it working. Increase in sound quality? I hope so. I hope so, and we'll hopefully be upgrading it. And yes, yes, you guys still can. Hey, I thought you were going to go visual or video or video podcast. Yes, that's still coming. Some things kind of put that on the back burner right now, but I still want to continue with the podcasting as it is right now. I didn't want that to be derailed because, you know, once things get derailed, it's really hard to get them back on track. So it's coming from an average train lover. So, that being said, I do want to thank you. Thank you to bars and thank you as well as the creation for the tumblers, and I thank each and every one of you for your questions.

Speaker 1: 1:49

If you haven't said any questions and we're going to talk about a little question today If you have any questions biblically or anything like that, comments on the show go ahead and send them to walkwithme at Bible study at gmailcom. Walk with me, bible study all one word at gmailcom. I'll get get them and hopefully I can. You know, if it's a simple answer like hey, look at the script over here, I will definitely respond to you. But if it's a more complex question, like what we're going to deal with today, then you know I probably will save all of those and kind of put them into a podcast so that you know a lot of times. Just so, when you go to type it in an answer and God is giving you a lot of things, sometimes you might miss something me, I might miss something. I might miss, hey, god said this scripture over here and I'm typing furiously and and I just you know just that fast I've forgotten about it. So the more complex questions just will just do an episode of them, just like we're going to do today. I do thank each and every one of you for sharing.

Speaker 1: 2:54

I know some of you have been asking about support link. Honestly, and just just to keep it 100 with everybody, I've been just kind of lazy about setting it up. God really hasn't pushed me in that direction yet. Maybe he will. There is a buy me a coffee thing out there. You know that's a set up. I haven't even checked it. If you've done that, I appreciate it. I suppose I'll figure out how to get into it one day. But I really think everyone who's asked me and who's talked to me about support, that being said, we're going to get into today's episode. Now. Here's the thing, everyone. Here's the thing.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Some of you who have been listening to me and enjoying this podcast may not do so after today. I understand that. I understand if this is the choice that you've made and the reason why I'm saying it this way, because some of the conversations that I've had over this subject over the last week, even going back to when I first got the Holy Ghost in 93, have been far less than pleasant and I'll put that euphemistically today, because if far less than pleasant about this subject and and full disclosure here the thing is, I used to believe this thing. I used to believe in this concept. I used to wholeheartedly support the concept. I was raised in certain circles where they taught this. You went to school and you learned this. You messed up, you had to do a thing which supported this concept and you felt good after doing it and the way they presented their beliefs and stuff like that. It made sense. And then you go to other places and you still kind of see that believe, even though they have different doctrinal support systems. And so you start to think, okay, well, maybe this is a thing, but maybe those doctrinal issues are not a thing. And I know I'm kind of speaking very mysteriously and generally speaking, but I'm just saying that I actually believed in this concept at one point in time.

Speaker 1: 5:07

What is that concept, jj? What are you talking about? I'm talking about the Trinity and I know at least 60% of you probably just turned off the podcast, and if not, then that's fine. Thank you for staying, thank you for hearing that out, because, understand, what we're going to talk about today is not JJ's opinion, it's not anything that JJ adds or JJ takes away All what is in the Bible and as far as this subject and trust me, we are only going to touch a very, a surface level view of this concept. We're not going to go into the history or where it came from and all that. That's like five different Bible studies, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:59

But we're going to talk about the Trinity today and we're going to talk about the various quote-unquote mutations of the Trinity doctrine. By that I mean the Trinity doctrine believes there's God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. There's three separate entities, that sort of rule the universe, and I've even heard some Trinitarian speak about God the Son. Jesus and the Holy Ghost were kind of like brothers and I have to say this with an asterisk, because to me that's about as blasphemous as you can get.

Speaker 1: 6:40

But you know, this is what we were taught growing up Catholic, and I wasn't Catholic, I was actually Catholic but I was going to a Catholic school and we learned this stuff and there was no, there was no negotiation. You learned it, you messed up, you did however many Hail Marys that it took, and I will never forget this flashback here. I'll never forget this. I did something really heinous in school one day, as a good teacher and one of the students said man, you got to do a hundred Hail Marys and I said, okay, hail Mary, hail Mary, hail Mary, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not how that works. You got to do the whole litany 100 times. So that was an aside to let you know that, yeah, I was fully immersed in this doctrine, I fully believed it, I embraced it, I loved it, until God revealed that this may not be biblical.

Speaker 1: 7:41

Okay, so we're going to talk about that as we address our subject today. So what is our subject today? The subject today is God is in Christ. The mighty God is in Christ. So, in order to ask yourself exactly what we're talking about, you got to start off with who is Jesus? All right, jesus even posted this question to his disciple. I say posted. He posted to them Matthew 16 and 15. Oh, and let me just stop here, because this is your first time listening there's a rule about this podcast. The rule of this podcast is, if I give you one of the pictures just for the second time, we ask that you read a verse or two below and a verse or two above, or preferably the whole chapter, because context is key. Context is key and this is a lot of what we're dealing with today, and we deal with the animosity of the doctor.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Okay, so Jesus asked the disciples if he really knew, if they really knew who he was. And this is Matthew 16 and 15. He says to them who do you say that I am? And you know, some of them said, well, somebody said you was Moses and somebody said you're Elijah, and somebody said you one of the great prophets, and somebody said you were Billy Bob Thornton and somebody said you were Joe D'Amato. No, no, no, no, no. Forget about what everyone else said. Who do you say that I am? And there was a diligent comparison of all the test and scripture with the new test and scripture that reveals that God is manifest in the flesh, verse 73, 16. And this is, this was the beginning, this is beginning, of my revelation from God and without controversy, greatest mystery of God. And read along with me God was manifest in the flesh. Ok, so if God was manifest in the flesh, at what point in anywhere in the Bible? That was the death. That God was manifest in the flesh, because it was Jesus that said I am he. It was Jesus that said I am my father or one. At no point in the other part of the Bible did anybody ever claim that? So that meant it was Jesus who was manifest in the flesh. It was justified in the spirit. Ok, well, who was justified in the spirit? The same God that was manifest in the flesh? Right, you were seeing an angel. Well, if Jesus was put on, quote born On on earth of a mother, then how could he ever been seen of angels? So again, this is God manifest in the flesh.

Speaker 1: 10:38

Preach unto the Gentiles. Who was preached unto the Gentiles? Jehovah wasn't. Jehovah was never preached into the Gentiles Before, before the New Testament. Anytime somebody said something about Jehovah. If you said to hope to sell the Gentiles, the Gentiles knew they were about to die or something was about to happen to them, because it was Jehovah that sent them to be conquered. So Jehovah was not preaching to the Gentiles. Jesus was Believe on in the world. Now wait a minute. So who was believed on in the world? Only question that was put up for believe on in the world was Jesus, not Jehovah at the time. What are you talking about? It was Jesus that sent out the disciples to preach the great commission. We talked about the great commission last time, about Preach the name of the demon. Preach the Lord Jesus right and baptized in that name. If every one of the disciples that went out preached baptism in Jesus name, peter preached the penance and baptism in Jesus name, right. So he was briefed on to these things on in the world and what's for his to kicker? The last part of the scripture is what nails it all together who was received that into glory? Because it's the last part of the verse received up into glory. Who was Jehovah was not, or that what we consider to be Jehovah was not Jesus was. So that meant Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.

Speaker 1: 12:24

And a lot of times we get this kind of, we get it mixed up and we sort of stretch it out and it becomes a bad or incomplete gospel, incomplete doctrine. So, and in Deuteronomy 6 and 4 says here, oh Israel, the Lord, our God, is one Lord. So there's not three of them sitting up there. It's not to waiting for a third one to be created, it's not one, you know, being ready to get birth to another. It's here, oh Israel Lord, oh God, one Lord. Mark 12 and 29 says First of all, commandments is here, oh, Israel, the Lord, our God, is one Lord. This is still Jesus you. Deuteronomy 6 and 4. Here, oh Israel, I'm not, I'm not a baby God, I'm not a new God, I am not. I am not a separate God. Here, oh Israel, the Lord, our God, is one, one Lord.

Speaker 1: 13:27

So then what generally happens is when you start talking about things like that, a lot of the Trinitarians begin to sort of retreat to this triunity. All right. Had that happened a couple days ago, private conversations, I was talking to a Trinitarian and I was asking him and I said, listen, the issue is and the journey of this revelation to me was when God asked me if I believe in three gods, what was the name of the Holy Ghost? And so I asked people that what is the name of the Holy Ghost? I can't say Comforter, because Comforter is a job title, it's a job description. So, and I began to, that began to lead me to study and be prepared, because God, god, I don't know what you're asking me. And this was even before this, right before I got to Holy Ghost, right before I got to Holy Ghost, because I really began to seek out what God was trying to tell me, what I was trying to hear, because God is telling you exactly what you need to know, but it's whether or not you are ready and willing to hear it. I was not ready and willing to hear it, so I had to start praying about it.

Speaker 1: 14:41

So, that being said, when Jesus said here is the Lord, our God is one Lord, and you say this to some Trinitarians, they start kind of moving into this trinity sort of doctrine and the trinity shows that, ok, well, it's God and three persons, but they're sort of all joined together and they're sort of, but they're still kind of separate, but they're not. But they're instead of now, because they have to try to justify the one Lord part, the citizens are saying well, you know, it's just God in three different manifestations. Same God, three different manifestations. What are you talking about? Jj Manifestation?

Speaker 1: 15:23

All right, so let's just say I said, hey, if anybody could guess my name then you can run this podcast, but the only thing I'm allowed to give you is son, co-worker and brother. That's the only thing I'm allowed to give you. You can't can use the term JJ because you already know my name, but the only thing I'm allowed to give you is co-worker, son and brother. They these are three titles all describing me. And this is to my mother I manifest as her son To my co-workers, I manifest as a co-worker and to my brothers, I manifest as a brother. I cannot manifest as a brother to my mother. I'm out of pocket, I'm out of control. I cannot be a son to my co-workers. That is also out of control as out of pocket. So there's a three different manifestations of me being limited as who I am.

Speaker 1: 16:31

How come God is not allowed to be different manifestations of the same Lord, especially when Jesus said what? The Lord, our God, is one Lord. The Bible says in Deuteronomy the Lord, our God, is one Lord. It is so many different, often different in different parts of the Bible. I am a jealous God. I am, I am not, we are, I am.

Speaker 1: 16:55

In the revelations it says he that sits upon the throne, not they that sit upon the thrones or they that sit upon the benches. So it's it's it's very important that we understand and we stay focused on what God is really trying to tell. According to John 4, 23 and 24, you know, the Bible goes even further to say that God is not a person at all. But what the Bible comment that now is when the true worshipers that worship the Father in spirit and in truth, the Father, if he could suck the work of him. 24, god is a spirit, not a person. To begin with, that's what destroys the entire Trinity argument, and this is where this was the true revelation God is a spirit, so it's it's. It's not impossible to be a spirit and a person. Right For us in our minds to think this way. So people just generally assign a person as to that God is a spirit, and they that worship him not them was worth the time, not them in spirit. So OK then JJ, tell us you've already been saying it, it's already 18 minutes into the, into the pockets.

Speaker 1: 18:18

Who is Jesus? Isaiah 7 is 14, said therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign. It's not going to set somebody, he's not going to, you know, create another thing. The Lord himself shall give you a sign. He told a person to perceive and bear a sign as you pay off his name in Mayo. Oh, jj, now we got for God's. You just said his name was Emmanuel. Right, that's what the Bible says, and, believe it or not, I had a Trinitarian used to say that gets me, and it literally, like I was stunned into silence, that they said the Lord, god will give you a sign.

Speaker 1: 19:04

Hold the first chapter, see the first sign, and shall call his name in manual. Which person named Emmanuel was ever conceived of a virgin in the Bible? Now you're going to say nobody, not a fact. We only had one virgin conceived in the Bible, and they called him what? Jesus. Oh, so that means this word Emmanuel must mean something else in a different language. Ok, so let's figure out what that is. Where are we going to find out?

Speaker 1: 19:34

In the source that told you to Emmanuel in the first place, isaiah nine and six. For unto us, a child is born. For unto us, a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, not theirs, and his name is that we call wonderful, the mighty God, the everlasting father. Wait a minute, did you just say the mighty God and the everlasting father? But we're going to call the son the mighty God and the everlasting father, the Prince of Peace. Whoa, so this, this son that's born of the virgin, shall be both the everlasting God, the mighty God, everlasting father, and the Prince of Peace.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Now, that was. That would naturally be confusing If you weren't thinking about God. If you were thinking about God as a person, then we have something with a very serious personality, because the father could never be a prince. The father would naturally be a king and the son could not be the father, but the son could be the prince. So now we're? Now we're confused, because we're still trying to configure this doctrine into the biblical setting and the biblical setting is actually rejected.

Speaker 1: 21:00

He is the one who created this. That's what we have to understand. I think one of 1560. Who is the image of the invisible God? The what? The invisible God, the first, born of the picture before, by him, not by them, by him, where all things created that are heaven and earth, this is called invisible, whether they be grown or mean physicalities or power. All things were created by him and for him.

Speaker 1: 21:36

So again, who was this Jesus Then? This was God, manifest in the flesh, and he was living by the rules of the flesh. These are rules that he said Because, remember his, his was really going to is a really kind of kind of blow it up for you. Remember, in the back in the Garden of Eden, god said you may eat stuff, right, you may eat of everything. You want, anything, you want to stuff the tree. He never said you were going to be hungry, only after the judgment occurred that the flesh have to have to eat. Only then did the flesh have to be hungry, only then did the flesh have to do all the things and sleep and do all the things that the flesh has to do now. So, being that these are the rules that God set forth In the judgment upon flesh, god also lived his life by rules of the flesh, which he created. He lived by his own rules.

Speaker 1: 22:43

How many times do we get mad at somebody for setting rules that they themselves do not live by? But this God, this almighty God, this everlasting Father, this Prince of Peace, lived by the rules that he set, and this is why you have situations like in the ship. Jesus was sleeping during the storm. This is why you had Jesus saying oh my God, take this cup away from me, because I know what I'm about to go through and I feel pain. I don't want it All the while being the same Jesus, the exact same Jesus that woke up out of that, the bottom of that ship, in that storm, and walked out and told the waves and the wind to cut it out. All right, that's it, that's enough, peace be still and everything shut down. This is the same Jesus that had the power that come down off that throne and eliminate every last Roman soldier that was ever thought about being a Roman soldier never in the history of history.

Speaker 1: 23:55

But he allowed that because he knew that sinless blood had to be shed. Sinless human blood had to be shed for human sin. And we're going to talk more about the differences between the human blood and the animal blood or why that was even required, because that's really more of an advanced sort of Well, it's not really advanced, but a lot of people don't talk about it. So I just kind of consider it like an advanced subject of why God made this happen to begin with. And we're going to talk about how that leads into beginning church. And you know, it's all of these things that God was doing as God feeding the five thousand people, healing the sick, raising the dead. He was doing these as God, all of the while living under the rules of flesh that he put down. That's why the devil thought that he could get him.

Speaker 1: 24:55

The devil knew. The devil knew right away on the mount of temptation what we call the mount of temptation. The devil knew right away. He wasn't talking to some little God. Devil didn't care about taking some little God. God never didn't care about taking the son of God. The devil was after God's position. The devil wanted to be worshiped by God, not by any secondary God or some advanced angel or however we want to call it. This was the devil's point. This is why the devil came himself to try and tempt Jesus, because otherwise it was somebody else, something else, an angel or something like that. If you would have said to a minion you wouldn't want to be in tears like that, you got to take the devil's little pride. So the devil saw God was manifest in the flesh On their by himself. The past and 40 days are now as flesh as even weaker than normal. He went after God on that mount. He tempted him every which way he could figure out a temple, but after three times he knew who he was giving and that's why he played. And that is our episode for today.

Speaker 1: 26:17

I know I covered a lot of stuff this evening. Will you be able to talk more about the one that's alive? We are, but yes, the question was why is it that you're saying the thing about? There's only one God, and the Bible says there are no treasures. The Bible itself does not mention the word Something that we create and in perfect defense. There's something that I believe in that is also not mentioned in the Bible, like the word raptor is not mentioned in the Bible, so again, the word raptor is not mentioned. However, there are different things that describe this thing that we call raptor. There's nothing in the Bible that describes the Trinity, because if you think so, then every other thing that defines or sort of describes four gods, that kind of destroys the idea.

Speaker 1: 27:14

So, and I understand that's where a lot of people get it and trust me, if you were, you're a Trinitarian out there. Please understand, I'm not personally attacking you because I know that I've no very nice, wonderful, very nice, wonderful, you know, trinitarian. I know some people who really get upset when you address this subject, but it is what it is and I don't have the option to ignore it just because it's going to make some members of this audience feel uncomfortable. It's Bible. God has sent me to do this thing and so I can't. I can't use my, my level of comfort to stay away from things or to add things or take them away.

Speaker 1: 28:06

All right, I love you all. Thank you so much for joining. Hope you're back next week. I really do, and if you're back next week, I'll thank you again. I still love you. If you're not back next week, I'll thank you for walking with us this far, but love you and God bless you. Hey, when you're out there today, smile at somebody telling that you love them. All right, you know God loves them. They may not know God, but they can see you. All right, so be Christ in their lives, be Godly in their lives. Tell them that you love them. All right, thank you.